Okay, so if you *have* read The Marriage Portrait, I'm dying to know: What did you think of O'Farrell's decision to let Lucrezia live in this version of her life? What do you think happened to her?
I did like the idea that she got to live on after having to deal with such a horrible man. I don’t think it could have just ended with her death (and nothing else), so I feel there did have to be some twist? And I’m not sure what else it could have been?
It's so interesting because in some ways I agree with you, but I also feel like it was, narratively speaking, the easy way out? Maybe I'm a heartless bitch, but I felt like the entire book was moving towards the end that would break our hearts and then it just...didn't and that makes me feel cheated? It's not that I wanted to see Lucrezia dead, far from it! But letting her live felt like a cop-out to me. Urgh!
Hi Luisa, I liked that she lived but hated that her maid had to take her place. Also seemed pretty selfish of Lucrezia to have her in the room since it wasn’t surprising that it would end that way for whichever woman they found in the bed. Hopefully she made it and had a good life in the end. I really enjoy all of O’Farrell’s writing.
Yes! I hated that the maid died in her place. It’s written like Lucrezia was such a fog, like she didn’t plan it, just ended up in the kitchen and, oh look! There’s the door. But, really? She had to have thought that the maid that she left in her bed just might be one who ends up dead. She could have brought the maid with her, but then, I suppose, that might have been difficult to reconcile with the facts of history.
Overall, though, I thought it was a fantastic novel. O’Farrell’s a beautiful writer and, as a character study, you couldn’t ask for much more than this.
She's really a wonderful writer and as you say, the character study in this book is exquisite - but precisely because we are made to love Lucrezia, it's hard to reconcile her with that ending. The maid's disposability did seem to be a further commentary on the value of women in that time.
I spent the whole novel trying to puzzle out how she might survive. I felt that she was such a force of nature that she simply couldn’t die at the end. The ending still shocked me though; it felt like a bit of an easy ‘out’. I felt terrible for this poor maid who’d been a kind of unfortunate ‘double’ of Lucrezia their whole lives. I am…ambivalent. I want her to have gone on and been an artist in blissful obscurity!
It absolutely felt like an easy out - and it's why I can't stop chewing on it! I do understand why Maggie O'Farrell wanted to let her live, but I feel like it was a slightly cowardly narrative move. What if the ending had been less clear? What if we didn't find out what happened to her either way; would that have been better or worse?
I liked that Lucrezia lived, as I had gotten rather attached to her, but I couldn't figure out how the maid got from her pallet on the floor to the bed, where she was strangled by the Duke. And it seemed rather selfish of her to leave the maid behind in the first place.
My nephew M watched the leg of his Curious George lovey catch fire on a candle at Christmas dinner when he was three, and for years couldn't be anywhere near a fire -- a family vacation to Hawaii meant skipping out on the luaus because of the fire pit, and for years family birthday celebrations involved candle-free cakes. Then slowly candles could be lit on cakes, but M had to be in another room, then he could be in the room to observe but only at a safe distance (ie, the faaaaaaar end of the room), then slowly, inching ever, ever closer to the main candle-blowing event. It took six years of just letting him find his ever-evolving comfort zone, but now he blows out the candles on his cakes like a champ.
Like you, I found the beginning of the novel very slow and a bit research heavy (where the author shows their research) but it improved and I enjoyed the middle of the novel. I thought the prose was lovely but the dialogue was awful. I also found the characters a bit flat and they never seemed to come alive for me. The ending? It seemed odd. It was as if O’Farrell wanted to give the reader a happy ending and it felt unlikely. I loved Hamnet so I was disappointed in this novel which was nowhere near as good.
Giving the reader a happy ending was what I found disappointing. It makes me sound like I wanted Lucrezia dead and I definitely didn't! But I was actually looking forward to how O'Farrell was going to have us understand and process Lucrezia's death and instead I felt a little cheated...Which is a weird feeling to have at the end of this book!
Excited to read The Marriage Portrait (I love Maggie O’Farrell). I’ll avert my eyes from the comments for now & check back in. Yay you’re in Boston during a spate of incredibly gorgeous weather! I’m in JP and have an 11 boy who had a great time in Germany this past summer if your boys want a few hours of kid interaction : )
Welcome to Massachusetts, even if it isn’t your first time! I live south of Boston but am currently visiting Egypt! Just wanted to add that last week I made your sunken apple cake from Classic German Baking...which I bought when it was first published. Anyway, this cake may have been the prettiest thing I have ever baked. It was gorgeous! I wish I’d taken a picture! It was delicious, too.
My views were almost identical to yours - a slow start, then I couldn’t put it down, then I felt blindsided by the ending…I really wanted her to survive and break out of the cage she was in, but also it felt like it was cheating the historical record. I couldn’t work out what would have been the better ending.
I loved the book but had to keep rereading sections because it jumped back and forth in time so much. It was very confusing to me in that regard. I’m glad that Lucretia lived, but found the explanation of why no one knew it was the maid and not her a but forced. Did she end up with the painter or was she on her own in Venice? That’s what I want to know.
I'm still laughing about mom having to say 'Hmmmhmmm' instead of the W-word. P.S. Just registered then cancelled for the cook a-long. It's my Gemeischaftsbüro Weihnachts dinner. Dang, would have loved to bring these but too scared to attempt on my own. Next time!
Okay, Luisa! I just finished this book a few weeks ago and have been wanting to discuss, so thank you! I found the escape ending so satisfying. It never occurred to me that O'Farrell might write an escape for Lucrezia, so I was pleasantly surprised and cheering her on. It felt to me like she (O'Farrell, but also Lucrezia) managed to cheat the historical record -- which, when we think about how women around this time/place generally, and Lucrezia specifically, appear in the historical record , feels important. I also felt like O'Farrell pulled off the narrative feat of having all the necessary details lined up ahead of time in a way that allowed them to fall into place when the ending is revealed but wasn't at all obvious as a set-up (to me, anyway). The part that stuck in my throat was sacrificing Emilia. It felt like O'Farrell was so focused on gender in this book -- so thoroughly, so satisfyingly -- that she made a decision to let the class aspect go. Or maybe not? In a generous mood, I'd say she meant for readers to be bothered by Emilia's death: if Lucrezia is "disposable," then Emilia is all the more so. Maybe she'll write her next book from the point of view of someone like Emilia.
Very disappointed in the book. Maybe after Hamnet my expectations were too high. Lucretia didn’t come alive for me the way Anne Hathaway did. The painter was the more memorable character by far. Unfortunately attention to historic accuracy seemed to inhibit O’Farrell’s imagination in a way that never happened in Hamnet. I wanted to be gutted by a tragic end for Lucrezia and her escape just fell flat.
I feel so similarly. Hamnet was such a high bar! And truthfully I also just read This Must Be the Place (and older O’Farrell book) and enjoyed THAT more than Marriage Portrait as well.
I found most of the characters so hateful, is part of the problem. I don’t doubt that is historically accurate, just made it harder to read (for me!)
The ending, although surprising, actually felt like a relief for me since the book had felt so heavy prior to that 🤷♀️
Okay, so if you *have* read The Marriage Portrait, I'm dying to know: What did you think of O'Farrell's decision to let Lucrezia live in this version of her life? What do you think happened to her?
I did like the idea that she got to live on after having to deal with such a horrible man. I don’t think it could have just ended with her death (and nothing else), so I feel there did have to be some twist? And I’m not sure what else it could have been?
It's so interesting because in some ways I agree with you, but I also feel like it was, narratively speaking, the easy way out? Maybe I'm a heartless bitch, but I felt like the entire book was moving towards the end that would break our hearts and then it just...didn't and that makes me feel cheated? It's not that I wanted to see Lucrezia dead, far from it! But letting her live felt like a cop-out to me. Urgh!
Hi Luisa, I liked that she lived but hated that her maid had to take her place. Also seemed pretty selfish of Lucrezia to have her in the room since it wasn’t surprising that it would end that way for whichever woman they found in the bed. Hopefully she made it and had a good life in the end. I really enjoy all of O’Farrell’s writing.
Yes! I hated that the maid died in her place. It’s written like Lucrezia was such a fog, like she didn’t plan it, just ended up in the kitchen and, oh look! There’s the door. But, really? She had to have thought that the maid that she left in her bed just might be one who ends up dead. She could have brought the maid with her, but then, I suppose, that might have been difficult to reconcile with the facts of history.
Overall, though, I thought it was a fantastic novel. O’Farrell’s a beautiful writer and, as a character study, you couldn’t ask for much more than this.
She's really a wonderful writer and as you say, the character study in this book is exquisite - but precisely because we are made to love Lucrezia, it's hard to reconcile her with that ending. The maid's disposability did seem to be a further commentary on the value of women in that time.
I spent the whole novel trying to puzzle out how she might survive. I felt that she was such a force of nature that she simply couldn’t die at the end. The ending still shocked me though; it felt like a bit of an easy ‘out’. I felt terrible for this poor maid who’d been a kind of unfortunate ‘double’ of Lucrezia their whole lives. I am…ambivalent. I want her to have gone on and been an artist in blissful obscurity!
It absolutely felt like an easy out - and it's why I can't stop chewing on it! I do understand why Maggie O'Farrell wanted to let her live, but I feel like it was a slightly cowardly narrative move. What if the ending had been less clear? What if we didn't find out what happened to her either way; would that have been better or worse?
I liked that Lucrezia lived, as I had gotten rather attached to her, but I couldn't figure out how the maid got from her pallet on the floor to the bed, where she was strangled by the Duke. And it seemed rather selfish of her to leave the maid behind in the first place.
I’m sure she told the maid to come and sleep in the bed with her…
My nephew M watched the leg of his Curious George lovey catch fire on a candle at Christmas dinner when he was three, and for years couldn't be anywhere near a fire -- a family vacation to Hawaii meant skipping out on the luaus because of the fire pit, and for years family birthday celebrations involved candle-free cakes. Then slowly candles could be lit on cakes, but M had to be in another room, then he could be in the room to observe but only at a safe distance (ie, the faaaaaaar end of the room), then slowly, inching ever, ever closer to the main candle-blowing event. It took six years of just letting him find his ever-evolving comfort zone, but now he blows out the candles on his cakes like a champ.
Oh wow!
Like you, I found the beginning of the novel very slow and a bit research heavy (where the author shows their research) but it improved and I enjoyed the middle of the novel. I thought the prose was lovely but the dialogue was awful. I also found the characters a bit flat and they never seemed to come alive for me. The ending? It seemed odd. It was as if O’Farrell wanted to give the reader a happy ending and it felt unlikely. I loved Hamnet so I was disappointed in this novel which was nowhere near as good.
Giving the reader a happy ending was what I found disappointing. It makes me sound like I wanted Lucrezia dead and I definitely didn't! But I was actually looking forward to how O'Farrell was going to have us understand and process Lucrezia's death and instead I felt a little cheated...Which is a weird feeling to have at the end of this book!
Excited to read The Marriage Portrait (I love Maggie O’Farrell). I’ll avert my eyes from the comments for now & check back in. Yay you’re in Boston during a spate of incredibly gorgeous weather! I’m in JP and have an 11 boy who had a great time in Germany this past summer if your boys want a few hours of kid interaction : )
Oh, thank you so much, but we had an insane schedule on this trip, leaving today! Maybe the next time!
Totally understand ! Safe travels back home 🌎✈️
Welcome to Massachusetts, even if it isn’t your first time! I live south of Boston but am currently visiting Egypt! Just wanted to add that last week I made your sunken apple cake from Classic German Baking...which I bought when it was first published. Anyway, this cake may have been the prettiest thing I have ever baked. It was gorgeous! I wish I’d taken a picture! It was delicious, too.
I'm so glad to hear it! That's such a simple, lovely cake.
My views were almost identical to yours - a slow start, then I couldn’t put it down, then I felt blindsided by the ending…I really wanted her to survive and break out of the cage she was in, but also it felt like it was cheating the historical record. I couldn’t work out what would have been the better ending.
yes yes yes! me too! ack!
Welcome back! So looking forward to the holiday baking with Molly.
The detail about substituting “hmhmhm” for the dreaded word - oh my heart - laughing and filled right up with admiration for that mothering
If you loved the book you must watch The Medici on Netflix. It is very underrated, my husband and I decided to watch on a whim. We really enjoyed it!
thanks, will definitely check it out.
I loved the book but had to keep rereading sections because it jumped back and forth in time so much. It was very confusing to me in that regard. I’m glad that Lucretia lived, but found the explanation of why no one knew it was the maid and not her a but forced. Did she end up with the painter or was she on her own in Venice? That’s what I want to know.
Maybe there will be a sequel?! :)
I'm still laughing about mom having to say 'Hmmmhmmm' instead of the W-word. P.S. Just registered then cancelled for the cook a-long. It's my Gemeischaftsbüro Weihnachts dinner. Dang, would have loved to bring these but too scared to attempt on my own. Next time!
You can do it, Eleanor! They're so easy...
Okay, Luisa! I just finished this book a few weeks ago and have been wanting to discuss, so thank you! I found the escape ending so satisfying. It never occurred to me that O'Farrell might write an escape for Lucrezia, so I was pleasantly surprised and cheering her on. It felt to me like she (O'Farrell, but also Lucrezia) managed to cheat the historical record -- which, when we think about how women around this time/place generally, and Lucrezia specifically, appear in the historical record , feels important. I also felt like O'Farrell pulled off the narrative feat of having all the necessary details lined up ahead of time in a way that allowed them to fall into place when the ending is revealed but wasn't at all obvious as a set-up (to me, anyway). The part that stuck in my throat was sacrificing Emilia. It felt like O'Farrell was so focused on gender in this book -- so thoroughly, so satisfyingly -- that she made a decision to let the class aspect go. Or maybe not? In a generous mood, I'd say she meant for readers to be bothered by Emilia's death: if Lucrezia is "disposable," then Emilia is all the more so. Maybe she'll write her next book from the point of view of someone like Emilia.
Very disappointed in the book. Maybe after Hamnet my expectations were too high. Lucretia didn’t come alive for me the way Anne Hathaway did. The painter was the more memorable character by far. Unfortunately attention to historic accuracy seemed to inhibit O’Farrell’s imagination in a way that never happened in Hamnet. I wanted to be gutted by a tragic end for Lucrezia and her escape just fell flat.
I feel so similarly. Hamnet was such a high bar! And truthfully I also just read This Must Be the Place (and older O’Farrell book) and enjoyed THAT more than Marriage Portrait as well.
I found most of the characters so hateful, is part of the problem. I don’t doubt that is historically accurate, just made it harder to read (for me!)
The ending, although surprising, actually felt like a relief for me since the book had felt so heavy prior to that 🤷♀️